2000 Jeep Gr Cherokee - 4.7L Cooling System Mud FIXED

[Tim Martin]

Has anyone ever taken these 4.7L engines apart yet? In the vehicle. And there is not much room at all. I'll be sporting a few more battle scars when I'm done with this job. They are well nigh among the worst I have ever done. This is one a the times I wish for the engineer that designed the thing. I'd like to see him/her service this one. He must a left his/her mental faculties at home that day. Well, I guess it's not but so bad but it really is testing my technical skills as well as my patience. And to top it off, alot of this top engine parts are plastic. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

May I suggest that when you are estimating work on this engine ya add more time than what the labor guide allows.

[liljoe]

One recomendation: C4

[steven kiser]

sometimes it's more practical to pull the motor when you're working on multiple issues. if you're replacing the freeze plugs i think there is one behind the flywheel as well. when you really think of it when it's been stripped down and your back is killing you, how much longer and safer would have taking it out been.

[mopwrforme]

i dont know maybe i look at it different due to 20+ yrs at 3 chrysler dealers and of course with the factory training. i actually think i owe the gentleman who designed the 4.7 as well as the 2.7 lunch or something ive made a lottttttttt of money on both those engines. and i really dont think you should be charging the customer for lack of experence on a spec. engine or job. thats what the redbook is for. i dont charge anything over book time for working on fords or imports. ive found a good rule of thumb is the first time you do a new repair youll loose you ------ 2nd time you should break even you get into 3rd or more thats when you start making money. yea i know that statement covers a lot of area. but i think its true to life

[Tim Martin]

I realize where you are coming from. The reason I am charging more than suggested labor time for head gasket r & r is because I got to flush out the entire cooling system due to all this mud in it. I also took the radiator out for cleaning.

I agree with yer method of relating to charging though, although I find it hard to believe that a 4.7 head gasket r & r can be done in 10.5 hours start to finish. I.d have to see that done to believe it although I guess if a guy knew all the shortcuts it mite cud be done in that short a time.

[Ruger77]

Labor guides are just that, guides. If they were gospel, wouldn't they all match? We have a Motor time guide for a fleet account that requires that we use it, and they rarely are the same as Mitchell (some higher, some lower). Just my 2 cents.

[steven kiser]

i use a program called "real time" it takes the age and level of difficulty into consideration.

[Tim Martin]

i use a program called "real time" it takes the age and level of difficulty into consideration.

steve, would you say that this real time program is more realistic than say mitchell or alldata so far as estimating labor time is concerned?

[steven kiser]

on vehicles over 5 years i certainly would say it does. it takes into consideration rusted bolts etc......

[Tim Martin]

I just finally finished the job. Let me just say this. There ain't no way a head gasket job is gonna be done in 10. hours as the estimator says. If so, I got 10.3 hours to watch it be done. I don't want to sound arrogant but I am now wearing several battle scars and a wounded ego from this one. Would I do another one? Absolutely. Jeeps are good money. Few shops around here will work on them. Lesson learned: Add time to the estimate figure but be fair with the owner.

[steven kiser]

it's a matter of room. this is one of the reasons i'll jack the time for an r&r. to much room for collateral damage.

[mopwrforme]

after a day or two has gone bye i reread my post and thought wow that wasnt the smartest thing ive ever wrote. you guys are exactly right every job should be quoted on its merits, and very correct in saying the redbook is just that a guide. im a new shop i opened in aug. of last year. and im learning. im sorry if i offended anyone that wasnt my intention, with flushing the block and removing the radiator to clean as well your customer got a great deal, and the vehical was fixed correctly. my opolages tim.[ o bye the way where the hec. is spell ck. at ] fyi keep in mind ive done a lot of jeep 4.7 engines and even with that it takes every bit of 10 hrs to do h/d gskts on one of those beasts. and yes 1st time around,im well really trying to forget those 2 days. thanks everyone

[Tim Martin]

after a day or two has gone bye i reread my post and thought wow that wasnt the smartest thing ive ever wrote. you guys are exactly right every job should be quoted on its merits, and very correct in saying the redbook is just that a guide. im a new shop i opened in aug. of last year. and im learning. im sorry if i offended anyone that wasnt my intention, with flushing the block and removing the radiator to clean as well your customer got a great deal, and the vehical was fixed correctly. my opolages tim.[ o bye the way where the hec. is spell ck. at ] fyi keep in mind ive done a lot of jeep 4.7 engines and even with that it takes every bit of 10 hrs to do h/d gskts on one of those beasts. and yes 1st time around,im well really trying to forget those 2 days. thanks everyone

No offense on my part mopwrforme. I appreciate when my fellow techs speak plain english. Yer comments challenged my own thinking as does that of others. I enjoy the input of others. Thats what makes this forum what it is.

But thanks for the response. Yer input is appreciated. And, yea, i'd like to forget bout this job as well but i am afraid the lessons learned were invaluable to me. Several body scars I am wearing just not remind me of this job. They ain't serious. Just enough to do the job.

[steven kiser]

offensive? who's trying to take my spot in the group? we're mechanics, shop owners, service writers and tina, i personally never looked at the post as offensive. what you said was correct. i work on a lot of trucks and when someone is flipping out working on one i know exactly how you feel. i'll sit back and say "that's no big deal" then i remember i may have had that issue years ago. i try to explain to the best of my ability how to repair or fix the issue. i look at it like when i'm fishing. i can drop a lure or bottom bait within 2 or 3 feet of where i want it at 30 or 40 yards. i've been fishing for years and have made all sorts of mistakes and left hundreds of pounds of gear in trees or snags. it's a matter of what we're accustomed to.

[timbre4]

Based on Friday Jan 7th post I marked this FIXED, then somebody removed it; is it fixed or not?

[steven kiser]

it appears that it's fixed then because of the degree of difficulty it took on a new meaning........

[Tim Martin]

Based on Friday Jan 7th post I marked this FIXED, then somebody removed it; is it fixed or not?

Yes it is finished. An you got that from the horses mouth.

[knuckles]

I have noticed when using Mitchell OnDemand Estimator that on some jobs like R&R the Dodge 4.7 cylinder heads, that sometimes one has to add and combine labor times, for instance removing the timing cover, radiator, intake and exhaust manifolds.
It is a bit confusing how Estimator figures the times from engine to engine - sometimes it seems very generous and other times it seems way too low.
If we actually used the times our mechanics took then a good rule of thumbe would be to double all Estimator labor-times.

[Tim Martin]

If we actually used the times our mechanics took then a good rule of thumbe would be to double all Estimator labor-times.

Welcome to the Forum. Glad to hear from ya!
Yea, I agree that at times is a more realistic labor time figure.