Manager Forum

hello everyone

my customer's 2000 Excursion blew #3 spark plug out; no threads remain. he wants me to use an insert that his buddy the cornwell tool man, told him about. he brought it in and i watched the cd which basicly has you use a rubber stopper on a hose attached to shop air, while turning the motor over by hand when it gets to bottom dead center the rubber stopper will pop out. at that point, you use a guide which comes in the kit and then drill out the spk. hole and tap it. at this point you put some jb weld on the insert while using the spk plug as an insertion tool.

i guess my question is has anyone ever used this system? theyre telling me with the piston at bdc, with the valves closed, you can blow out all the shavings with a small air line, then inspect with a borescope. i dont know, it just sounds chessey any input would be a help.

thanks

woah, hold on here. like "meat loaf" said "stop right there". there is a proper tool that snap on makes(just the one i use) others are available that are just as good. there is a sleeve that centers the ream and rethreader. the ream goes in and with a ratchet you turn it to oversize the hole. there is a vac attachment to clean out the cylinder. then you insert the tap and cut the threads. clean out the cylinder again. take the tool for the insert, install the insert on it, put loc tite on the threads and install the insert. you are supposed to use a tool to seat the insert but on some (most) ports it's impossible to hit it with a hammer. i purchased a palm driver used to pound in nails in tight areas that works. just give it a burp, don't hammer away. i've seen these inserts and the end result of people using them. head has to come off and thrown into the scrap heap. it will cut it's own thread and will oversize it so the correct tool will not work. j b weld huh we all know that it's a great product and i use it a lot in my shop but never would use it in this application. anyone that uses the insert will (in my opinion) overuse the weld and a blob will end up on the piston and this stuff does dry like steel. i've seen the resulting damage. if your customer is adamant about doing it this way invite him and his buddy over and let them have at it. i can give you the phone numbers of a few people that have driven this insert home with disastrous results. you may want to tell them to use a few washers when they anchor the coil and the fuel trim will possibly be out of specs. the internet will be full of testimonials about this product being a success. people don't understand that the computer has the ability to make adjustments to deaden the feeling of a skip and since they really don't feel it and the "noise" is gone it's fixed and cost nothing compared to what you were going to charge to repair it correctly. if you bow to pressure and install this part you're entering a crotch kicking contest. if by some cosmic reason this works then you were trying to screw him, on the other hand if it doesn't and the head is ruined then it's your fault because you're the professional and should have known better. the choice is yours, pick wisely.............i try not to be negative in these situations because they effect all of us that repair things correctly. unfortunately many consumers want the cheapest way to work that they will believe anything that they read. they go for price not for reason. i have no problem telling people i told you so and will ask them when i see them. i had a customer that opted for a "wizard" repair and really told me how i was ripping her off etc. i got a call from a salvage yard to ask me about the car. one of my reciepts was found in the glove compartment. they told me that they knew the engine was blown but wondered if i knew about the rest of the car. i ran into her at a grocery store in a long check out line. i asked her if the wonder repair had worked out. i got no reply and asked again a bit louder, she said fine. i reminded her that she had called me a rip off and theif and another shop told her that they could repiar it using a different method for far less money. i had a few people listening now and i said "i see, i didn't notice your car in the lot, and before she could reply i said 's that it wouldn't be there because it's in the junk yard because what i told her was going to happen did. i wanted an apology for what she said about me being a rip off. i told her that i would bet dollars to donuts that she told everyone that i was trying to rip her off right up to when the engine blew. i added, but then again you saved a few hundred bucks doing it that way and the engine blowing just like i told you it would had nothing to do with a shoddy repiar. her husband called a few day's later very upset with me because i embarassed his wife. i told him that the damage i did to her was nothing compared to the damage she did to me telling all her friends that i was trying to rip her off by telling her the car needed to be repaired a certain way and some other shop had a majic way of doing it for less. there was a pause and he asked what i was talking about. i started laughing and said "you don't know what happened do you". i told him that the car was brought into my shop with an overheating problem and i told her that the head was cracked and if it wasn't repaired it would blow the engine. apparently she called around and found a shop that would fix it for what she was willing to spend. not only did that not work out but word got back to me that she was telling everyone i was a rip off. i asked him if it worked out the way it was explained to him, and if i was still a rip off, and was buying a new car better than spending 1,500 bucks to repair the vehicle correctly the first time. he was a bit angry and apologised and said that he would try to repair any damage his wife did. amazingly he did. i had a few people mention to me that hey had recieved a phone call from him rectifying the issue. another ramble, sorry.

I agree with steve on doing it rite or not at all cause in most cases where price determines repair, it bites ya later.

There is no way I'd use the kit described in the original post. No way. I am hearing that even when it's done "rite" that the success rate is still only 50%. I know it's costly but so far I have not repaired any blown out threads, I simply replace the head. Then I know what I got and so does the customer.

tim, the ford factory kit is great. being in a town that has a ford dealer and dealing with a lot of landscapers that have fords i've done at least 50. i just ordered another package of inserts. it's just the sane as the companies use that reman heads. i'm not talking about lou's reman that's being done in a basement. i agree with you about being sure that the repiar is done correctly. next time you replace a head save the old one and find someone that has the kit and ask to use it. i know it's a reach but i'm thinking that you have a few friends in the business that will let you try it. i don't mean a reach that you have friends, i mean find someone that has and will allow you to use it. i think you'll be pleased with the result. this isn't a slam and bam repair. if it was, i wouldn't be doing it at my shop. as a matter of fact i did one on a head from a blown motor and was pleased with the results. when ford came out with this as an approved repair i felt it was a bans aid to get it past warranty. it may well have been, but it works well. it's not like when chrystler recalled all their trucks and vans, widened the cat failure window and paid the fine to the feds instead of replacing them. or at least that was what i've been told in a few of my classes.

steve, yer experiences are quite interesting. One of the issues I face when a vehicle comes in with blown out threads is that when I communicate with the owner about the thread repairs, almost always they want it done right as opposed to installing threads. Keep in mind, most of my customers are middle class folks with their own business and usually have the wherwithall to have the head replaced. I do have the kit you are describing and would like to try it but up till now every job so far has had the head replaced cause the owner wants it that way.

I use these for everyone. Ive done maybe 15. http://www.timesert.com/

thanks too all for your input, well at this point im still on hold with the repair. i have went over the pros and cons with the inserts and told the customer im recomending the heads be pulled and replaced. if what his guy is saying is actually true its just a matter of time before the other cyls. blow there plugs as well. i explaned that i was willing to preform the repair as designed per his wishes but i could only stand behind the fact that the procedure would be followed to the letter i would not stand behind the parts used. so i guess he is looking into his options i expect to hear from him in a day or two ill repost at that time thanks again guys.

your point about other plugs blowing out is a good one. i've felt the same way but when i've done a repair by installing an insert i always replace all the other plugs. basically what i've discovered is that if the plugs are torqued they won't blow out. it's when they get loose they tear the plug threads out. of all i've done including a few that i've installed inserts in on more than one cylinder because i've found a loose plug while repairing a blow out i've never had a return because of another blow out. i look at it like when a customer comes in with a flat tire i don't stop checking the tire after i find a nail. i've lost count of how many have had more than one hole. i also check the tire on the same side if i find more than one nail. in my opinion it's a prudent and professional move. just like not assuming that there is only one loose plug. for some reason i see many with the same plug blown out. 90% are on the right head and one of the last three. never a front, sweet, easy one. as a matter of fact if an easy one ever came in i'd be looking for the other foot to drop.

Good point I always replace the plugs and boots. And the coil that got hammered by the plug. I do a full tune-up with bg decarb service as well.

my customer called today to inform me that he and his buddy replaced just the 1 hole with the insert and basicly told me thanks but no thanks. it may be a blessing in reality i had my concearns about the repair. but after reading all the input i would have done what he requested, my thanks to everyone for the info i learned a lot

don't close it yet. it's been my experience with these miracle inserts it usually takes about a week to start leaking or blow out.

or when they thread the insert in it will screw down in and damage the engine. The ones i use are great but ive seen others that I would use as a paper weight